Future of Fertility_Jessica Bell van der Wal: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Future of Fertility_Jessica Bell van der Wal: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Abby Mercado:
Hi. I'm Abby Mercado, an IVF mom, former VC investor, and CEO of Rescripted. Welcome to The Future of Fertility, a podcast dedicated to shining a light on the entrepreneurs and innovators who are changing the face of family building. With billions in funding over the past few years, we'll introduce you to the people, the ideas, and the businesses that are changing the fertility industry and in turn, millions of people's lives. The future of fertility is bright. Now let's get into it!

Abby Mercado:
Jessica Bell van der Wal is the co-founder and CEO of Frame Fertility. Frame Fertility is the first and only evidence-based platform that enables the early identification of fertility risk and care navigation leading to a better fertility and overall health. Frame was inspired by Jessica and her husband, Corey's own challenging fertility journey, and they became dedicated to giving everyone the power to pursue parenthood confidently and on their own terms. Jessica and I first met on the Parenthood Ventures Slack channel, shout out to our friend Charlotte, and very much hit it off during our first zoom date. I know a talented founder when I see one, so I am thrilled to have Jessica in my very own orbit. Welcome, Jess. Thanks so much for joining us. How are you?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Well, thank you. I'm so honored to be here. And yes, you are spot on. It was a great first conversation, shout out to Charlotte in the Parenthood group, and really excited to continue the conversation.

Abby Mercado:
Yay! ... Also, first, I would love for you to tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself and maybe one fun fact that few people know.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Awesome, happy to. So again, Jessica, originally from Charlotte, North Carolina. So as soon as I say that, I feel like all the North Carolinians out there will hear the accent and my voice.

Abby Mercado:
And it was the Lina.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
That's exactly.

Abby Mercado:
The Lina, and it was like.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
You can't avoid it. As much as I feel like my Southern accent has gone away, there are certain words and then certain times like when I talk to my mother on the phone and but in terms of me, I have spent my entire career in health care. My roots are actually in public health. And that's very much kind of how I think about the world and problems in health care is with that public health lens. So shout out to my alma mater, UNC Chapel Hill's School of Public Health, where I received that initial training. And after that, I've spent a variety of different kind of terms of service within the health care arena, working with providers in the early part of my career, doing a lot of EMR and CPOE implementations and, and then soon after going to business school is when I really started to kind of quote-unquote pivot into digital health. And I have primarily spent a lot of my time in the B2B2C digital health arena working with employers and also payers. I worked at a company called Castlight Health for around six years, which was a tremendous experience, really great people I got to work with. And I've also played a role at a variety of other digital health companies, including companies like Sword Health and FoodSmart and primarily have led teams in growth and marketing. And, and how I came to found Frame though, was more of an intersection of, of personal and professional. And I'm happy to obviously share the, the genesis of the story. But I think the biggest thing to know about me is I love health care, I am through and through going to always be in health care and working at mission-driven companies. And it's amazing to now be at the helm of, of a company that I believe is on a very important mission. And then I'd say the fun fact about me is, I mean, I'm literally looking at my desk right now. There's a photo in the right corner of myself and my father at the top of Mount Kilimanjaro when I was 19 years old, so I'm a bit of an adventure junkie. Like, you can definitely talk me into jumping out of planes and taking intense hikes, I somehow wound up going to Everest base camp a few years ago. And so I'm just a lover of all things, outdoors and again, kind of adrenaline junkie at heart. So, yes, you can you can talk me into crazy excursions, which I'm sure my, my husband would now tell you to avoid. But I will always be up for, for trips like that.

Abby Mercado:
That is such a fun fact. I would say that starting a startup is kind of like uniquely for a, an adventure junkie. So I think that is my form of adventure. But wow, that's, so are you constantly training for all of these adventures or like, what is that like for you?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
It's funny because I'll say that obviously this used to be a big part of my life is like trying to find the next crazy trip. Now two years post mom, I feel like surviving, becoming a mom and being a parent is really the battle that I am constantly up and down on. And then obviously I threw in there starting a company which I also, also happened to found with my husband. So we are a wife-husband team, so I think I've got the kind of crazy buckets checked all of a sudden in other ways.

Abby Mercado:
Yes, I'm pretty sure you do. That's awesome, though. I am, I'm jealous, I wish I was like that, I'm not. But yes, I would agree with you that parenthood is an adventure in and of itself, so. And also I want to dig in just a little bit. So for the person who, who hears the term public health and it's like, ooh, gosh, what is that? So like, do you go to school to like to not be like are you kind of focused on the things that doctors aren't like for the public health newbie? What is that? What did you study?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah, it's so interesting because as you say that I mean, I'll, I'll admit that the reason I actually majored in public health is because I was pre-med. So I was thinking about what other majors, what other focus areas I could use to complement all of these classes and bio and chemistry. And I somehow believed that I didn't want to just go down that same path with all of the kind of science-related majors, and so I did public health because I thought it would be a great complement. And then I kind of fell in love with public health and population health and kind of all the, the kind of terms wrapped up in that bucket and, and actually decided not to go down the pre-med track. So it's kind of interesting because I, I did that because I wanted to complement my pre-med courses and do something a little different. But in the end, that was the path that led me to where I am and actually led me more to the business side of health care. And, and I'll say I have a lot of love for both sides of the equation. I think they're both obviously important. But, you know, public health, you're right, it does have this kind of like generic umbrella term. And I think the parts of it that I am really attached to, because at its core, it's really about preventing disease, prolonging life, and promoting health across communities, was that really that last piece. So how do you basically bolster health through community work, through partnerships, through organized efforts and kind of organizations at the core of your city, state, federal government. So how do you, again, kind of unify those organizations around this topic of health and wellness and kind of the, the core of what really helps to bolster the growth of the community? And, you know, obviously, we've had a lot of public health crises over the past couple of years, one of those being COVID. I think we're in the middle of another one with some, some recent and kind of legislative action, too. And so I think it's really, again, about how do you make sure that you are supporting the health and wellness of your communities. And that's, again, where I have a lot of appreciation and love for that kind of concept at its core.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, I love that. And it's, it's the reason, it's one of the reasons that, that we started this podcast. We see so many, so many people like the founder of Market Fit is, is so perfect in this industry. And we'll of course get into that as we, as we move into talking about Frame. But you know, who also see that, people who work in the health care industry, who work in digital health, they're just trying to figure out where they can make the most impact. And it sounds like when you received your education, you thought you would follow a certain path, but you actually found a way to make a bigger impact by taking another path. And I think that's so wonderful and so admirable. So thank you for doing that for all of us. And so I have another kind of follow up question about your, just your background before starting Frame. And it seems like you have you've had a lot of experience in the B2B2C realm and would love to just understand some of just the, the fundamental challenges and successes of B2B2C, I think you're, you're so uniquely able to speak to this, but a lot of founders have seen a lot of challenges in this area. And I'm just interested to understand how in your prior roles, you were able to overcome some of these challenges and some of the learnings that you've taken into Frame.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah, well, thank you. I mean it, it's been a great arena to be trained and to learn in. Again, I, I really learned a ton through my years at Castlight Health and then obviously got to share a lot of those learnings with other companies I advise and support even today, but I don't think I've cracked the code. If I had, I'd probably, would have been doing that full time all the time in many ways, but you know, definitely learned a lot. I think it's, it's easy, unfortunately, to say, oh, this is just something I'm going to go sell to employers. And, but for better or worse, it's again, it's interesting because about ten or so years ago is when I was first in the kind of employer B2B2C world, and that was when this was a new idea even to sell to employers. And now, I mean, it's been an explosion across digital health companies to sell to employers. So there's just a lot of noise, even more noise now than there ever has been. And so I think my takeaways is there's, there's kind of no avenue within health care that is easy. It's really finding where your solution is going to have the most impact. And I think that is something that I'm obviously thinking a lot about at Frame, but within the employer arena in particular, again, there's just a lot of solutions. And so I think one of the things that companies can do best is actually think about ways to partner, ways to, to leverage what currently exists. And rather than always thinking about selling direct, that can again feel like the right way to start out, but it's, it's not easy. And so I think working together, uniting with other solutions that are complementary is a key element that I think can often be overlooked as you're thinking about the employer space, but I think can be a really nice way to kind of get into the, the arena too. I think the other thing to remember is B2B2C in itself has a bit of a challenge because there is a B in the middle. And so thinking about your end consumer, engagement strategies first is going to be super critical. And, and again, I think that's, that's something where it can be easy to overlook. Great, I sold an employer, I sold a pair, and now, obviously, people are going to use my products. But that's, that's not a given. And so building those strategies in, whether that's into contracting or into those initial dialogues as a fundamental piece that's going to be critical to your success is, is paramount. And so that's another big thing that I learned a lot in my prior experience is you have to codify your engagement best practices at the very beginning of the dialogue, if not trying to run uphill and try to get another email out, another postcard out is going to be difficult and sometimes it takes creative solutions to and it's, it's been neat to see people kind of attack these things from different angles. I think that's why you're seeing these kind of new employer marketplaces, too, where people can kind of almost shop for their benefits instead of it all being on the benefit leader. So again, there's no kind of slam dunk here. It's not an easy space to say I'm selling to employers, but I do think that there's some fundamentals that are important to learn before you enter the space, and a lot of those are around partnerships. And then again, you're kind of employee engagement strategy.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, that was, that was such an excellent summary. I know there's, you know, I think in the past, the past, I don't know what three or four or five years there's been kind of within the B2B2C space, it's been, you see a lot of companies who are taking the approach, okay, let's start out with a niche product, let's, let's sell this to the consumer, let's get a lot of traction and then let's go to the B. And it's, it's an approach that I mean, does it work? Does it not work? It seems like there's, there's different ways to go about it. So, well, thank you for educating us on all of those things. And without let's just, let's cut to the chase, I want to hear about. Frame, so tell us, tell us the founding story and just the moment that you knew that you wanted to take that leap and would love it, if you're open to sharing it, would love to hear a little bit more about you and Corey's personal story and how you guys decided to do this together.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yes. Yes. Back to that, that crazy decision. So, yes, so Corey is my, my husband, my partner, and he is now a partner in so many different ways, obviously, company, father, and, and obviously husband, I'm very lucky to have him in my life. And I think to your, your comment about when it felt like this was going to be the thing for us, because obviously when you start a company, I don't think I even fully appreciated then how much you really need to care a ton about what you are starting because this is going to be your kind of focus for the next 5, 10, 15 years at least of your life, and so it needs to be something you're very invested in. And I kind of knew that when it was almost like a collision of factors. And so kind of the long story-short on us is, you know, we're, we're just like everybody else. We're a couple that ended up getting married in our early thirties, and we thought about having a family around then and even had some conversations with some providers and others. And, you know, we're kind of told not to worry about it, just try when you're ready, nd if it doesn't work, come back. And for better or worse, we ended up trying when I was over the age of 35, which is one of those scary labels that you hear in the space over the age of 35, which age is just one factor or something people should remember. But, you know, once we did that, all of these things surfaced, underlying conditions, challenges on my side, challenges on his side. And it felt like we had just hit a wall in terms of all these surprises and things that I didn't know I felt wildly unprepared for. And it, it really took us for a tailspin financially, mentally, emotionally, physically. I mean, I stepped away from the workplace in a lot of ways to deal with this. And so we're, we're one of the lucky ones, after a lot of ups and downs, we ended up using fertility treatment, and we have a daughter as a result, and I'm super grateful for that. But in, in retrospect, you know, a lot of the things that we encountered could have been identified earlier, and had we had support in the journey earlier, we could have also at least understood some of the risk factors and made different decisions. And that's, that's not an uncommon journey, we have we've heard this from so many different people. I mean, reproductive anxiety, that kind of stress people go through and starting their families starts early, and it's actually starts in your late teens, early twenties. And I think people think that, you know, you're not thinking about a family when you're younger, but many people are, and that's definitely something we have tapped into. But most people also don't know the basics of fertility, whether it's ovulation or even some of the building blocks, because really all you're taught is how to avoid pregnancy and how to avoid having a family in the early part of your life. But then once you find out all the pieces, oftentimes it can feel like it's quote-unquote, too late. And so what we set out to do with Frame is help people on the journey earlier. We really want to help support people in understanding their options, understanding potential risks based on the goals they have for their family. And I think the light bulb moment came for us once, I was around six months pregnant, so it felt kind of safe to start focusing on something else in my life. Ironically, COVID hit it, and both of us were in a bit of stage of transition with our careers. It just was kind of one of those interesting times where we actually just worked on something together, we had space to really think, all of a sudden, we're now trapped indoors, pregnant, and there's a public health crisis happening around us. And I think, like a lot of people started thinking about what really matters and what we wanted to focus our time and energy on, and we actually looked at the space for a long time. I thought about joining one of the companies in this space, I did some advising and consulting as well in the fertility space, and I just couldn't find the solution for what we went through. And so we're two sides of one coin, ironically, from a digital health perspective, again, I come from kind of growth, marketing, employer-payer, and Corey actually comes from product engineering analytics in the provider and pharma space. And so yep, we're trapped indoors, all of a sudden we start thinking, we start brainstorming, we start talking to everyone and anyone that would talk to us, I mean.

Abby Mercado:
They're like, I want a foot massage, pickles, ice cream, and for you to write some lines of code.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Exactly, exactly, right? And to reach out to all the clinicians on PubMed that have ever written anything on this topic, because that's what you do, right?

Abby Mercado:
Yeah! Of course.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
And so those conversations really brought to the surface, this is a challenge that people are aware of. In fact, providers are aware of, too, that it's kind of a blind spot in the patient journey and we could do something about it. We could actually kind of unify the research and create a digital health product that would help to support people on the journey. And that's what we spent basically the next year building, is putting the pieces together with a team of experts, layering in a human touch, because I'm a big advocate of I think in health care, it's easy to say technology is going to solve everything, but I think the tech and services blend is super critical, especially to drive behavior change. And so we have combined technology with coaching, and the results so far have been really exciting to see. So we built the solution that we wanted for ourselves, but we also built the solution that after talking to probably thousands of people at this point, other people believe that they're not getting and seeing as well. And so we're people's family building and fertility advisor and we're on the journey with them from just curious all the way through to having a child or maybe even going through treatment. It's, it's the full spectrum support that we're providing.

Abby Mercado:
So amazing. Love Frame. I also, like all the way back to the beginning. I took a quick note when you mentioned that you really have to care about what you're doing and there's, there's no better sound or story than solving a problem then, that you yourself experience, like you knew exactly how you wanted to solve this problem. And I love that you, you look for a job at companies that you thought were solving this problem, but they actually weren't. And I also thought it was really interesting when you mentioned that reproductive stress and anxiety starts in somebody's late teens and early twenties. Where? Tell us more about that data, that is absolutely fascinating.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yes, it's actually been supported by a few different sources. So I think that one actually came out of a recent white paper that was published by, one of the players is actually in this space. But, you know, again, as we talk to people, I'll say our users actually skew much younger than we expected. I mean, they are they're in their twenties just as often as they're in their thirties, and 85% of them are just curious, they're starting to plan. And so, again, I think everybody centers around once you're trying to conceive and or struggling as being the kind of intersection point to support people, but people are having these discussions or at least these worries in their mind much earlier. And I think Gen Z, even more than millennials, are really thinking about these things earlier. We have a fair amount of men using our products that come to us, whether they're single or partnered. And again, I think more and more people are focused on this concept of holistic health and also kind of knowing where they are on the spectrum early. And there's this element of the financial side that I think is very, very real. And people don't want to have to go through a crisis around building their family that's also going to impact them financially. And for those of us that have been through the treatment journey, it is not cheap in any way, shape or form. And so, again, I think more and more there's just momentum for people to be thinking about these things earlier and to be seeking solutions in a similar way.

Abby Mercado:
I love it. I know that you have some data that you have, that you've published that and this is something that I've really loved about Frame since the very beginning. But so many, so many people think like, yes, IVF is expensive, yes, there are some people, including myself and my partner, my husband, that had to go through IVF to have a child. But so many people think that IVF is actually the only answer when starting to think about this a little bit earlier, just understanding the data, getting yourself educated like that actually might be the answer for you. So I love that you're creating this greater access for people who are who are interested in having families. And I know that, I mean, nine out of ten people in the United States want to have kids. This is really an important issue. So if let's say and I would love to get to that go to market in just a little bit, but I want to talk a little bit about the product first. So let's say that my employer has offered me free fertility. Like what? What do I have access to?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah, no, thanks for asking. So, so yes. Employers is one of the channels that we provide access to Frame. And I think the core element of why I think this is obviously appealing for employers is, you know, they are obviously looking for ways to improve their employee health and well-being. I mean, right now there's a lot of focus on on mental health as well, too. And there's definitely an overlap between mental health and fertility. But I think the other reality is what you just mentioned it, it is also not cheap to throw money at this problem, too. And so we can actually, again, hopefully help people start this journey earlier and/or address things with less invasive solutions. I mean, nobody, nobody signs up wanting to go through fertility treatment for sure. And so in terms of the employer journey, there's a couple of things that you have access to. So first and foremost, we do a kind of holistic fertility assessment or kind of report, which is basically we ingest a lot of data across a variety of different factors, all substantiated by research, starting with your goals. So where are you in the journey? How many children might you want? And obviously those things may change, but kind of where are you? And it may also be that you don't want children today, and that's one of the biggest focus areas, and we can definitely help to support you there too. But then we understand some of your medical history, reproductive history, your lifestyle, your finances, etc.. So based on all of that data, there is then a fertility assessment or report generated that is provided to you and that is all paired with that coaching journey that I mentioned. So you are assigned a 1:1 dedicated coach that not only walks you through that report, but then coach and counsels you on your next step which, again, is going to really help you to get questions answered, feel like you're supported by someone throughout the journey. A lot of people don't feel like they can turn to their friends or, or to their doctors at this stage in the journey. And so having that coach is a really nice pairing along the journey, and they can be kind of that third party unbiased support. You also get quite a few other things, so we also have a network of partners that we work with and we kind of call this the Frame marketplace and we can basically help to serve up to you relevant products and services that may be relevant based on where you are in your journey. And we also typically get a discount for you on behalf of those partners. So it could be that you need a prenatal vitamin because you are actually within 3 to 6 months of starting to plan, or it might be that semen analysis and testing is going to be a next step. And so across all of those different verticals, we have a partner that has been more or less vetted by our clinical team and advisory board and plugged into our product, and you get access to those at a discount. So that's another key piece that you get through Frame, really simplifying the noise out there in a variety of buckets, it's really hard to know, kind of, which prenatal vitamin to pick. And we also help you to navigate to providers so we can help you find an in-network provider based on your insurance and coverage. We can help you unpack your insurance coverage and your benefits, which also could be helping you understand if you have coverage for fertility treatment. And then finally, educational content, webinars, videos like we're constantly creating content or working with great people like Rescripted to serve up to you content that is very relevant based on where you are. So again, it's all about kind of sifting through the noise. I think the biggest thing I want people to feel is supported and not overwhelmed. This is a overwhelming journey as it is, so if we can help you get your questions answered and direct you to the kind of relevant and I'd say research-driven resource like that is our goal, and so everything we do is going to really be with that focus.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, it's like if you provide people with these tools, these resources, they can be a better advocate for themselves on this journey, which is I mean, I don't have the research, I don't have the exact number, but this is, this is like maybe the most important journey you'll go on in your life. The journey to, to build your family is about the family of your dreams, so.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah. And it baffles me. How did how did we get there? Like you have support on, with your finances or buying a house like you have these support partners and services. To me, it's crazy that you don't have that for fertility and family building.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, absolutely. So tell us, you mentioned kind of the employer route. So tell us a little bit about your go to market, I have a, I might have an idea of why you chose the employer space. You have a lot of experience in it and they have a lot of money, and that's how our health care system works. So tell us, tell us about your go to market and how you incorporate that through that and all the things.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah, yeah. So we're maybe one of the unique companies in general and that we, we did not start direct to consumer, so we did kind of poll users. We did kind of get feedback more broadly when we first were thinking about this conceptually to understand would people use this, would they buy it? And so we did kind of do that exercise, but we actually in many ways kind of have always been B2B2C, our initial launches of this product in 2021 were with providers. So we actually worked with OB-GYNs to provide this to their patients. And that has been definitely a key element of our strategy since day one, which is partnering with providers. I'm a big advocate of working with the system, working with providers to bring this into their workflow. They, again, they acknowledge this is something that they want to offer to their patients, but often they don't have time. And so we've been working with OB-GYNs since the very beginning. Now we're expanding into PCPs and even some REIs as well too. So again, we have been focused on distribution through providers from the early days. And then in 2022 we did start launching with employers. So this is an employer benefit that we can work with employers to offer to their employees. And so that's been really great because I think we've been able to demonstrate really quickly the engagement results and also the power that this has by engaging a larger audience within an employer and not only their fertility and family building, but also their overall health. And so that's been really exciting. And we're, we're really focused in the employer space, you won't be surprised, is on partnerships. So again, I'm not trying to conquer the world within the employer space by selling direct. I believe fundamentally that we can unify and work with existing players in the space. I'm not trying to fight a lot of the downstream partners, I'm trying to work with them because I think together we are better. And so I've been really focused on partnerships within the employer space and got a lot of exciting momentum happening there too that I look forward to sharing in the coming weeks. And then I will say we have started also some dialogues within the payer space. So I'm a big advocate of, again, working with the players to align incentives. And what's funny is I think we didn't fully realize this when we, we built this product, but we're at an interesting juncture where working with Frame our mission, it aligns with everyone's incentives, it aligns with the end user, it aligns with the employer, it aligns with the provider and aligns with the payer, and that's unique. And so if anything, we kind of have this interesting challenge where we get a lot of interest from a lot of different angles, and so that's been exciting for us so early on. And I think it's one of the things that gets me really excited is everybody wins through Frame and that is very, very impactful. I think hopefully for, for the end user that we're really trying to impact at the end of the day.

Abby Mercado:
That's all, okay, so help us walk through that equation. I mean, I'm, obviously you're right, but I want to make sure. So, of course, the fertility consumer, the individual, the patient, they're winning because they get access to these fantastic tools and resources. And this coach was with, with them on their journey. For the provider, the provider has basically supplemental, they're saving more time because they're able to help their patient and providing them with tools and resources, is that right?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah. I mean, I think you're hitting on some of the core drivers. This was actually one that I think we were even more excited about after our early launches. So a few things. So we have seen obviously this enhanced patient engagement in their care and also patient satisfaction, which is fantastic. So it was actually bringing in patients that had almost kind of disengaged from seeing their provider and brought them back in, which is great. And that in turn actually improves outcomes because that means they're getting potentially diagnosed and treated for underlying conditions that may go undiagnosed, but it also means they're engaging in their preventive care, so they're coming in for those regular visits with their PCP or OB-GYN, that, again, may be getting swept under the rug because people perceive themselves almost to be healthy during this time frame, which makes sense.

Abby Mercado:
Yes.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
But then the last speech, which was really cool to hear, is improving efficiency. So you hit on this a little bit, which is we're also helping them shortcut. So when fertility gets brought up in the last 2 minutes of maybe your annual well woman visit, they can send a patient to us, we can work with them, we can help them uncover what things may be relevant for their provider and which ones may not. And for the ones that are not as relevant for their provider, we handle all of those kind of in the weeds conversations. So whether that's about diet and lifestyle or their finances and insurance coverage or those awkward conversations they may need to have with their partner, we're handling all of that and we're just bringing the patient back in for the high value clinical touch points. And even then we've kind of pre-wired the patient to already know how to talk about it. They kind of know the risk factors already, and so it's getting to the answer faster. So maybe even get them in for bloodwork or ultrasound or whatever it is faster versus them having to play detective and find where where all the battleships are, it's an analogy that my co-founder always says we're kind of playing the game of Battleship for them. We're already telling them, okay, this one exists, this is PCOS, this one exists, it's the fact that their partner uses testosterone and smoked marijuana every, every day. So we're already surfacing those key risk factors and a lot of times addressing them.

Abby Mercado:
Right.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
That's the provider.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. Employer. And so employers like, okay, cool. Like my employee loves, loves all of these things that we're providing to them and they're going to stay on board because we're really taking care of them, so the retention and then it's also.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
... Like quizzing, quizzing Abby on ....

Abby Mercado:
I know. I'm like I'm like Abby has gone to the school of what we used to call it at the beginning of our journey with Rescripted, the continuum of who cares about this problem. So and we were there were always like six for us. It was like the payer, the employer, the insurance company, the provider, like the patient, like, you know, obviously I'm just going to that breaking that down for your business. So the employers are in there, they're also saving money down the road because they might you know, this is well care, this isn't necessarily health care. So anyway, break that down for me in your work.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah. Yeah. So there's kind of three core things that we talk about with employers. So the first one to your point is reducing costs. So hopefully we can help avoid unnecessary fertility treatment whenever possible. Also improving maternity outcomes though, because there are some outcomes that are impacted when people do go through a challenging either pre-conception period or challenging fertility process. And then obviously again, we're surfacing underlying conditions that may go undiagnosed and thus causing all kinds of other health complications, so reducing costs. Improving employee well-being, so again, we're addressing that reproductive anxiety early and potentially lost productivity that that kind of comes with some of these elements, too. And we're increasing usage of preventive care. And then the last piece is increasing benefit utilization. So this has been another one that's been really interesting, exciting to see, probably something we didn't even fully understand until we got into it, which is, like I said, we're engaging people that are in their twenties and early thirties, in their fertility and family building, but also about their overall health. So we're actually able to help redirect them to other benefits and services they didn't know they have. And a lot of times that can be something like a mental health benefit. And again, it's it's exciting for an employer because there's a lot of these benefits that don't get used. And so we can be a front door in a lot of different ways and help to engage new audiences in existing benefits and really amplify their other products and services that they have.

Abby Mercado:
So obsessed with Frame. Now, this makes so much sense. I mean, we've been having the conversation internally at Rescripted, like fertility is health and wellness, like people in their twenties, thirties, forties, they're not going through typical health crises. But who do they, who do they see? If you're a female like men, that's really problematic. That's why you see all of these amazing companies like Legacy and Daddy and, you know, the list goes on. But for the woman, it's the OB-GYN. And like there's such an access problem in the US that so many women don't even have have that. But, but anyway, it's like you're, you're going to be saying your OB-GYN anyway, this has to be some sort of front door like we have to make fertility wellness, it is wellness.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yep, yep. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, when you think about all the buckets that I even alluded to earlier that we're kind of quote-unquote screening for, that is health and wellness, you're exactly right. And I think our philosophy is by making this digital, by making this scalable, we can be that front door. And then when people do need to see care providers, we can help get them in in an efficient way and help them understand, like what to focus on today versus what can wait. Because I think that's the other thing, too, is it can often feel overwhelming when you go online and read some of the the things that impact fertility, you can feel like goodness, everything does right. And so do I need to change everything about my life. And some things are going to matter today. Some things are going to matter when you're trying or closer in, and then some things are going to matter when you are pregnant. And so, again, sifting through the noise is hopefully something we can really help people do.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. Awesome. Love it. So this one, I'm going to try to phrase this question without you being like, oh, I can't tell you much more on that. So tell me, so I know you're, you're very interested in partnerships.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah.

Abby Mercado:
And you're definitely doing something different from the other folks in the employee benefit space. Tell, tell me a little bit about your moat and why others won't do this and why Frame Fertility is the winner in the space.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah, no, I appreciate you asking. So there's a couple of things that I would point to. And also, I'm not going to be naive enough to say like somebody won't try to do this, because I think that's the reality. And in many ways, like we need multiple players and multiple arenas. I mean, we have so many crises to solve here. But I would venture to say that even if somebody does get into this space, because right now we are the only player in this kind of specific area, but even if they do, I don't believe they can deliver it any better than we are because we are very focused on this specific part of the journey. And I think it's easy to say we're going to do it all. But then I would ask myself, but are you doing it well? And so again, I think in terms of the moat, there's a couple of key pieces. So one is I'll just flat out say the team, I mean, we like I mentioned earlier, we built the team with the experts, we built the team with the people that have spent their careers on pre-conception care and counseling, proactive fertility planning. They are our advisors, they are not working with other people like we, we really have focused on the expertise and the research and it's something we regularly review and these people are just phenomenal. And I think with that comes the algorithm that powers that fertility assessment that I mentioned earlier. So we have a way to sift through over 850 data elements and process them, categorize them and score them so that you get a very simplified view of, like I mentioned, what matters today, where are you on your journey? Are you on track? Are you off track? Where do you focus, etc.? And so that's another kind of big element that is critical to what we have built. And then the final piece I'll say is like, I believe fundamentally, like we have a head start. Like I can see the forest through the trees on this, and in many ways this is the way other spaces have moved. If you think about musculoskeletal, at first it was about finding you the best surgeon and getting you to that surgeon at the lowest cost possible, then it was about kind of helping treat your pain so that it doesn't advance into a surgical need, and now it's preventative. And I fundamentally think fertility and family building will move this direction. But we are out in front of this. Again, I talked about we are talking to employers, we're talking to providers, we're talking to payers like we are, we are out there really digging in with a variety of different partners in a variety of different spaces. And what's super cool is we are talking to people that you may perceive as future competitors and they are flat out telling me, I am not doing this and I would like to partner with you because we have developed expertise in this area unlike anyone else. And so I'm not afraid to have those conversations, and I've had them with a lot of the, the players in the space, and we're discussing ways to partner. And I'm, I'm thrilled about that because I think we do, again, we really need to work together, especially in women's health right now. We, we need to partner together to solve so many different challenges, so I'm very optimistic. And I also feel like, again, I think we're off to the races on this for sure.

Abby Mercado:
I love it. I think that I mean, fertility is such as an industry that is just so lagging behind. Like where I found challenges at Rescripted in the fertility industry is because it works like no other sub industry in health care. It's just a little bit different. But we are seeing so much growth in the employer space and the reason that matters is because more people will receive the care that they undoubtedly need. So yeah, but I, it's obvious that you're ahead of the curve here and are going to be leader in this space. So yay, yay. And another thing that I, that I love about you as a founder is that you are constantly going back to the data. You guys are it's so obvious that you're so data driven and that is just so fundamental in starting a company and making sure it is successful. I had an investor remind me of that just today. Go back, always go back to the data, go back to the data.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah.

Abby Mercado:
I was like, Mike, I am, like, come on, here are our KPIs local. So I have one more question for you. This podcast is coming to a close, believe it or not, crazy how fast, how fast this is gone. So I, the, I always ask this question and it is how would you rescript the fertility industry? But I'm going to rephrase it because I know you like to use the word reframe, so I'm going to ask you. So, Jess, how would you reframe the fertility industry now that you know, now that you know the industry?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yeah, teah. I love that, rescript it, brilliant word. So.

Abby Mercado:
Same reframed.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yes, yes, exactly. I mean, you know, again, we've talked a lot about the kind of holistic nature of fertility. So maybe I won't fall back on that exact example because I feel like we've now alluded to it in multiple different ways. I think that the thing that I'm actually really focused on right now actually came out of a recent user focus group that we did, which we, we are constantly, to your point, gathering data but also gathering qualitative feedback from our users and non-users. And one of the things that I heard loud and clear and I've been thinking about this a lot and I think you probably have heard this too, is that fertility often tends to allude to just people of opposite sex or just females. And I think that we really need to rescript that that word or reframe that word because fertility and family building are not just areas of focus for those that are opposite sex or for women. It is obviously something to your comment earlier, nine out of ten people are thinking about, and so it has to be broader, it has to embrace all sexes, all gender identities, all sexual orientations. And so that is something that I'm really mindful of, is that the word fertility may not resonate with everybody. And thus we have to, to some degree, rescript that word and think about what, what is the word? How do we make sure people can identify with Frame but also like with their fertility health? And so that's something that I'm very actively focused on right now. And I think generally, again, I think there's a lot of focus on fertility being a, a women's health topic, but that is just not the case. It is something that is very impactful for women's health, but it is not just something that women are quote-unquote, dealing with. It is a broad topic that has to include the male. Otherwise, we're going to be not identifying the underlying issues and that could be causing fertility challenges. So that's something I'm really focused on right now. And again, I'll be continued to, to follow the direction of our users. And this is one that I'm really marinating on to think about how to rescript.

Abby Mercado:
That is so fascinating. I, it's like the word fertility needs a better marketing campaign.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Yep. Yep.

Abby Mercado:
Oh, man, that's awesome. Wow. How can HR leaders contact you?

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
I love it. I love it. So there's our website. There's a form on there that will come to us. We are very responsive. You can also definitely find us on LinkedIn, both company wise and myself. I am actively working to try to be better myself on other forms of social media. I feel like I need some lessons from, from Abby on this. And but generally I think LinkedIn and our website are the best places for B2B partners, HR leaders, etc. to find us. And so look forward to connecting with many others after this.

Abby Mercado:
Awesome. Well, Jess, this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and looking forward to catching up with you soon.

Jessica Bell van der Wal:
Likewise. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. I'm a big fan of Rescripted and we definitely direct users your way too. So really excited to be on.

Abby Mercado:
Amazing, catch the later.

Abby Mercado:
Thank you for tuning in to the Future Of Fertility. We hope you leave here feeling empowered about all of the exciting innovations taking place in the fertility space. If you like today's episode and want to stay up to date on our podcast, don't forget to click Subscribe. To find this episode, show notes, resources, and more, head to Rescripted.com, and be sure to join our free Fertility Support Community while you're there.

Sonix is the world’s most advanced automated transcription, translation, and subtitling platform. Fast, accurate, and affordable.

Automatically convert your mp3 files to text (txt file), Microsoft Word (docx file), and SubRip Subtitle (srt file) in minutes.

Sonix has many features that you'd love including enterprise-grade admin tools, upload many different filetypes, world-class support, collaboration tools, and easily transcribe your Zoom meetings. Try Sonix for free today.