SFA_Brooke Schnittman: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

SFA_Brooke Schnittman: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Missy Modell:
Welcome to Sorry for Apologizing. I'm your host, Missy Modell, activist, strategist, and recovering chronic Apologizer. In this podcast, we'll explore all of the ways women have been conditioned by society to play small. Whether it's being expected to have children, tolerate chronic pain, or accept gender inequities from orgasms to paychecks. This season, we'll work to challenge the cultural beliefs that brought us here and discuss all of the reasons why we should be asking for forgiveness rather than permission. It is time to stop apologizing.

Missy Modell:
I didn't know I had ADHD until I was in my 30s. I just thought I was scatterbrained. I never remembered a birthday. I had trouble completing tasks, and you know, some self-worth issues. The list really goes on and on. And all along, I was just neurodivergent, and I'm not alone. Women are not likely to get diagnosed until their mid-30s, and when I was finally diagnosed, everything just made so much more sense. I feel like my world opened up, and I eventually learned how to work with my ADHD versus against it, and my life has truly transformed. So I'm genuinely so excited to bring on the woman that really helped to turn it all around for me. She's a renowned ADHD coach and my dear friend Brooke Schnittman. She's the founder of Coaching with Brooke, three-time best-selling author of the book, Activate Your ADHD Potential. Hi, Brooke.

Brooke Schnittman:
Hi, Missy!

Missy Modell:
Welcome to the show. I feel like we do talk about this subject matter a lot together.

Brooke Schnittman:
Yes, we do.

Missy Modell:
And this is your career and your life's work. And for me, this is a recent interest and discovery. And what is.

Brooke Schnittman:
Late in life.

Brooke Schnittman:
Late in life. And I mentioned in the intro, I did not even know I had ADHD until my sister, throughout the years, mentioned and then affirmed when I was 34. And then, I enrolled in your course, which is how we originally met.

Brooke Schnittman:
Yes, yes, I remember we were on a very long phone conversation before you enrolled, and it was like instant best friends.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
It's just so common for ADHD-ers, but we definitely had that. We had that instant connection.

Missy Modell:
Wait, so talk about that for a second. So first, what is ADHD? I hear it all the time. I feel like it's trending. It's cool. It's like a thing to have; maybe walk us through what is it.

Brooke Schnittman:
ADHD is definitely a lot more popular in awareness on social media, on TikTok especially. And I think in May 2022, the hashtag ADHD has 11.4 billion views on TikTok. So because when COVID happened, a lot more people were investing time in their mental health, were more aware, were on social media more because they couldn't go out, and started to see symptoms on social that were similar to them. And many of them ended up seeking an ADHD diagnosis, whether they got diagnosed as ADHD or maybe it was another coexisting condition. But to have ADHD, you must have had it before the age of 12. And before the age of 12, if you were to get tested and diagnosed with ADHD, you have to have five out of nine of the symptoms of ADHD, and it had to be exhibited in two or more areas of your life, or at least six months. And like I said, as an adult, it has to be before the age of 12. As a child, before the age of 12, if you're getting diagnosed with ADHD, it has to be six out of the nine symptoms in two or more areas of your life for at least six months. And the reason why they say two or more areas of your life is because, let's say, you are struggling, let's say, in a relationship, or something is stressing you out. If you're exhibiting these ADHD symptoms just there, it's not ADHD. There's also a lot of coexisting conditions or conditions that look similar to ADHD, which can be misdiagnosed. So they have to rule out those other things as well.

Missy Modell:
So question for you, when we talk about symptoms and needing a certain amount out of the list, does that include the discrepancies in which it's represented between genders? For example, the way ADHD might present in women versus men or girls and boys are very different. Does it account for that?

Brooke Schnittman:
No. So, there are nine symptoms in the inattentive type. There's nine symptoms in the hyperactive, impulsive type of ADHD. There's three types of ADHD. There's nine symptoms in the combined type ADHD, which is a little bit of both. So yes, boys can be diagnosed more because, generally speaking, they have the hyperactive symptoms which, at school, the teachers will start noticing pick up on, and then they'll get that diagnosis. Because that's usually as a child where it's seen first. However, not all men or boys have hyperactive ADHD. Some can be inattentive, and some can be combined, and it also might go undiagnosed, just like many women until adulthood.

Missy Modell:
And yeah, there's just so much around diagnosis. I think it, had I known earlier that I had ADHD, I think my life would have been really different. I remember when I was pursuing music full-time, I don't know if we spoke about this. The best way to describe it is I couldn't get my shit together. I didn't follow through on important emails from record labels. I dropped so many opportunities and would berate myself because I had no idea that it was almost out of my control, that this was neuroatypical of me, and that I had no way to know because.

Brooke Schnittman:
That ... or no.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, I didn't know, because women, that's not how it really shows up in the media or how I've always known ADHD to be. Have you found when people finally find you or find out they have ADHD, there's a sense of relief?

Brooke Schnittman:
It's almost relief-grief. There's, I should probably talk about or coin after you're diagnosed.

Missy Modell:
The grief of ADHD.

Brooke Schnittman:
Exactly.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
So it's different for everyone, of course. But for me, when I was diagnosed later in life, there was no grief at that time, there was kind of just a, okay, cool, let me keep doing what I'm doing. And now, I see myself as part of a community, and it took me a little bit longer to kind of process it all and bring it back to different times in my life. I'm still, to this day, five years later, thinking about times sometimes when my ADHD showed up in my childhood, and that's okay. But I think it's different for everyone. Sometimes, I know a lot of my clients say that they're excited when they get that ADHD diagnosis, because they can understand their own brain for the first time, and they feel like they have a community of people. But then the realness kicks in, it's, Okay, yeah, I have this diagnosis. Now what? Okay, I got to do something about it because I'm struggling.

Missy Modell:
And why do you think you were diagnosed later? What led to that process of even figuring it out?

Brooke Schnittman:
It's crazy. I have been working with individuals with ADHD for 20 years. I went, and I got my master's from NYU and students with disabilities. I was a special education teacher, assistant director of special education, had no idea I had ADHD, went to therapists on and off my entire life. I was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder, with generalized anxiety disorder, and I was prescribed medication for my anxiety, and it wasn't until I became an ADHD coach and I knew and understood myself a lot more. I was online with my adult clients at the time. It was six months in, and I realized that I had a lot of the same tendencies that they did. I had a difficult time shifting my attention from our sessions that I loved, to the notes that I had to do afterwards, the dreaded notes, and then coming back to my next session and then doing the dreaded notes again. Those things were just like huge red flags for me, and it started triggering some thoughts. When I was a teacher, I was in my element. I was working with these special education students, and they got me, and I got them, and I just didn't put two and two together. But I realized later in life that not only was I helping them, I was helping myself in it. So, six months into coaching in 2019, I sought out an ADHD diagnosis from an ADHD psychologist that I know, and she diagnosed me with ADHD combined type moderate. There's three different levels, so there's mild, moderate, and severe.

Missy Modell:
And what was the first thing you did, the first shift in your routine, or something that was like an immediate next step for you to tackle it?

Brooke Schnittman:
... shift, so I received coaching for a year before I became a coach, ironically, my path and the stars just lined up.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
It's pretty crazy how my life turned out. And it wasn't just ADHD coaching, but it helped me understand who I was for the first time, how to execute big things and have a pathway to do it and not just act emotionally the night before and do it, or do it last minute, and creating those structures and routines based on my self-awareness and understanding how it's showing up to other people, helped me regulate my undiagnosed ADHD symptoms at the time. So fast forward to a year and a half later, when I was six months into coaching, I had a routine. I was coping with my ADHD. I was figuring things out. The only thing that changed for me at that time was I got on medication. I got on Adderall, I was grateful that it worked for me, and I was able to sustain my attention and shift my attention a lot longer than I was before.

Missy Modell:
I'd love to talk about just symptoms that we don't expect. So what are some things that one might not realize is actually a part of ADHD? Let's talk about money, for example.

Brooke Schnittman:
Oh. ADHD tax. What money?

Missy Modell:
Mhm-hm, mhm-hm. Impulsivity.

Brooke Schnittman:
Yeah, oh my gosh. So starting with money and impulsivity, so yes, we can be seeking out dopamine because our dopamine levels are totally out of whack. It's either really high above the dopamine baseline, or it's really low up below the ADHD baseline. Most neurotypicals just have hits of dopamine throughout the day on a regular basis. ADHD is, it fluctuates. It goes up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down. So when you have a low dopamine, you're trying to seek out dopamine, and one way to do that is by impulse spending, and it's a dopamine hit. Yes, it's a dopamine hit when you do that.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
I used to spend a lot of money on clothing and bags, especially when I lived in New York, and jewelry, and that got me excited for whatever reason. Now, it doesn't excite me as much.

Missy Modell:
How come?

Brooke Schnittman:
Maybe it is I stabilize my ADHD. Maybe it's because I'm a little bit happier in my life and I am more regulated. I also live in Florida, so the conditions are a little different, but at the same time, I think a lot had to do with the fact that I have regulated my dopamine levels and I have coordinated self-help stuff, like having a morning routine, making sure that I'm mindful, eating, drinking enough water, exercising all of those things that regulate dopamine.

Missy Modell:
What is a good ADHD morning routine? At its simplest level, for someone like me.

Brooke Schnittman:
The simplest level? Yeah, I mean, my morning routine can be very different than your morning routine. So like, don't choose one just because I told you to. There's plenty of morning routines out there. Literally, like the one thing that I would say to try to do is avoid your phone first thing in the morning, because when we check our phone and listen, I become victim to this a lot too. So I have to remind myself, when we check our phone, the first thing in the morning is we're tending to other people's needs, and then the chaos in our brain gets really heightened, and then it sets the tone for the rest of the day. If we do literally anything else but check our phone or attend to someone else's needs, then we set the day with our intention, and that's it. So you could drink water, have it by your nightstand the night before. You can have a book next to you. You can do deep breathing. You can just put two feet on the floor and breathe in and out. Go outside and see trees and the sun. That is so wonderful for the ADHD brain to just go outside.

Missy Modell:
I love that. What about the impact of hormones on ADHD? Because I feel like that's something that's not as heavily spoken about. And I notice, and I've read, like it makes sense afterward, but during certain parts of my cycle, for example, during pre-menstruation, when I'm PMSing, I spend more money.

Brooke Schnittman:
Yeah, because your dopamine levels are changing. So during our cycle or menopause, we have low estrogen. And because we have low estrogen, then our dopamine production is low, and that causes more extreme ADHD symptoms that increase. So this happens to everyone. This is not just for people with ADHD. This is what happens to their hormones. And so people without ADHD can still experience some ADHD symptoms during their cycle or menopause.

Missy Modell:
And I feel like, back to impulsivity, because I wanted to talk about something else in relationships, I've noticed I have a lot of trouble repressing my thoughts, and I have the urge to say anything that's on my mind. Is that part of it?

Brooke Schnittman:
Oversharing?

Missy Modell:
Yeah. And by the way, you mentioned earlier that we immediately felt a kinship. Do you think because we both crave connection as ADHD-ers?

Brooke Schnittman:
I think, for you and I, we have a lot of the same core values. So I think we were like magnets gravitating towards each other. But I think in general with ADHD, and our relationship has lasted for four years.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
I think we met four years ago, but in most cases with ADHD, yes, we love connection, even if we're introverts and we love people who are just like exciting and vibrant. So you can connect with someone with ADHD really quickly and feel like you've known them forever. Doesn't mean, though, that you're going to stay connected with them forever, because the interest of a relationship spikes your dopamine. It's new, it's fun, it's exciting. Same thing in dating. But then after a few months, it's not as exciting anymore. And then you forget to text people back and you forget to not talk about yourself and listen. So in relationships, it can be really challenging for people with ADHD, to keep friendships and partnerships.

Missy Modell:
I was going to say the interpersonal piece of ADHD is so interesting to me, and complex, and challenging. For somebody navigating the dating scene, whether they're in a new partnership or they're trying to get out there, what are some, like, helpful things that you've coached people on around this?

Brooke Schnittman:
You're smiling.

Missy Modell:
I know, I'm always smiling with you. What do you got to say about it?

Brooke Schnittman:
This one hits close to home. So I would say, you really got to do some self-work and understand what it is that you're looking for. So if you are looking for a long-term relationship, you need to understand what it is that you want in your partner, not just accept anyone who is willing to connect with you. Because sometimes we are like so excited that someone's giving us attention and they're love bombing us and they're making us feel special, and maybe they're attractive to us, but, and they might even very often have ADHD. That's exciting. But we need to know what we want before we go into that relationship, or else we're, again, allowing other people to dictate what we want, which I was falling victim for that trap for a very long time. I went for the bad boys. I went for people who were exciting. I would date multiple people at the same time, just because, I guess, maybe because I wanted to numb out any like rejection pain of someone not liking me. But for me, I think on the apps, especially when I was in my young 30s and late 20s, I think I was addicted to just swiping and connecting and getting that dopamine hit every time I got a connection.

Missy Modell:
It's super overwhelming. Honestly, I find dating apps to be very strange. I haven't been on it in a second, but I find them to be like overload and I get really stressed out.

Brooke Schnittman:
How can you? If you have ADHD and you're constantly seeing something new, it's like window shopping.

Missy Modell:
And you don't trust your gut, almost.

Brooke Schnittman:
You don't trust your gut. And the metacognition is very difficult for people with ADHD. So to think about how, why you might like someone, we just go all in and we start dating. So my number one tip would be to just figure out what you want in a man or in a partner, and then seek that out. It wasn't until I figured that out with a relationship coach, then, I literally, two months later found my husband.

Missy Modell:
That's unbelievable. And what I love about your program to go back, because it really was so transformative for me in so many ways. You talked about core values, and I feel like I just would love to talk about that really quickly. Why, especially for people who have ADHD, to really understand your core values?

Brooke Schnittman:
Yeah, 100%. So if you have core values that are in someone else's value system, or their core values are in your value system, or your core values align, you're going to gravitate towards each other like a magnet, like you and I. And it's kind of unexpected and you can't explain it. It's just you respect these people, you get them, and everything else, that's like the glue to a relationship, right? If your values don't align, you might have a great time with this person. They might be exciting, but very often you repel from the person and it could be a very toxic relationship. And you might try really hard to make this relationship or friendship work, but to the core, you guys aren't the same. So if you, Missy, are someone who is driven, right? That's possibly one of your core values, right? You're a hustler, you're determined.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
And you're with someone who isn't determined, that's going to be really hard for you to grasp. Also, if you're someone with integrity, which I know you are, and you're with someone who does not have integrity, they don't keep their word, they might lie, that's not going to sit right with you.

Missy Modell:
And also core values with yourself, because I feel like when we break promises to ourselves, irregardless of dating, that's where self-esteem gets impacted. We lose connection to our gut, because you talk about core values as it relates to others, but also as it relates to us, like knowing who we are. What are some core values? Just as an example.

Brooke Schnittman:
I love what you said, though also with core values to yourself, because they align with everything that we do. And if we don't follow our core values and create action towards our core values, ultimately it's not going to work. We are going to, yeah, we're going to have more strength and more persistence and more determination when we're leading with our values. Less anxiety, less stress, less depression, all of those things. So a core value, as I mentioned, could be integrity, it could be drive, it could be care for other people. It could, there's hundreds of core values out there. It could be family, friends.

Missy Modell:
I need to redo that exercise, I feel like.

Brooke Schnittman:
The values under 3C activation. Lesson two.

Missy Modell:
Uh-huh. I need to revisit that framework for me. What do you think is one of the biggest misconceptions about ADHD that you'd want people to know?

Brooke Schnittman:
Not everyone has ADHD. Everyone might struggle with attention or symptoms of ADHD at some point, and we understand. I get it, I'm not offended by people saying that everyone has ADHD at this point, because people just don't have the education sometimes. In our society today, we are constantly distracted by notifications on our phone, emails, social media, YouTube clips are pretty fast. If we look back into some of our childhood shows, I mean, I tried to watch Family Matters, no offense, I loved Family Matters, but I tried watching it recently with my stepsons and we were all like, bored to tears because it wasn't fast enough. But that wasn't me when I was younger, I loved the show. Our attention spans have changed, and Doctor Halliwell says that, he coined something called VAST, variable attention syndrome something, and basically says that everyone has that and everyone with ADHD also has that, but that doesn't mean that everyone has ADHD. So know the distinction, be careful when you say, doesn't everyone have this, in anything, right? You don't just have a little autism, you don't just have a little ADHD. You don't just have a little bit of a diagnosis of anxiety.

Missy Modell:
Not a little bit pregnant.

Brooke Schnittman:
You're not a little bit pregnant at all. Kind of hard.

Missy Modell:
It is. You just went through it, and firsthand.

Brooke Schnittman:
I did, I did, I did, yeah. Someone said that they had a little bit of pregnancy too. I'd be like, how's that possible?

Missy Modell:
You're like, I don't know what that means.

Brooke Schnittman:
Exactly.

Missy Modell:
You talk a lot about momentum, and I want to know why you've coined it in your business, and why it's so important, and what disrupts it.

Brooke Schnittman:
I coined, thank you for sharing that, and I know you were a part of my Maintaining Momentum group as well. Momentum is one of the things that really propels us forward, and with ADHD, sometimes we could have a negative thought when it comes to momentum because we think of like physics class and perhaps we did bad in science or on our labs, but momentum is really meant to just help us create small actions week after week, make micro changes to lead to macro changes. So we're not telling anyone to do everything all at once, we just want you to try something every day or every week so you're continuing on the path to your success, whatever that is. So after people go through my 3C activation program, then we have our trademarked Maintaining Momentum program, which just helps them stay on their path. For anyone, if you don't use the tools that you've learned as great as they can be, or as terrible as they can be, your brain atrophies. So you have to remind yourself, and you have to keep it in the forefront of your brain, that like, you have to continue to do the hard work even if and have the habits for it, because you can get off that habit. So we have a group that is a continuation group, and it's Maintaining Momentum, and it literally is just for accountability and support, because we thrive in groups with ADHD, we thrive with energy of others to continue to produce. Also, I've come up with, and people can say that there's other disruptors, but the ten ADHD disruptors that I've come up with is underwhelm. And when people are underwhelmed with ADHD, they're seeking dopamine, right? So in order to seek dopamine, one way of doing it is getting an exciting new idea. Exciting new idea will give you dopamine. From there, then, unfortunately, we then tend to hyper-focus on something. When we hyper-focus, then we get overwhelmed because we've used all the dopamine, right? And then from there, we experience burnout, low dopamine, emotional dysregulation, feelings of failure, which come with rejection, sensitive dysphoria, comparison, and rejection sensitive dysphoria, and then total burnout and shut down. So when you're in that shutdown phase, you literally can't do anything. You might freeze, fight, flight, fawn, fib, all of those things until you get to a point of underwhelm again, and then you look for the dopamine, and so on and so. And with ADHD, we can experience this multiple times a day. We can experience some of these symptoms at the same time, so it doesn't have to go in order, it could go in order. There's tons of disruptors for ADHD, and those are the things that stop us from building momentum. So in my 3C activation program and my book, Activate Your ADHD potential, I highlight the 12 strategies to get you out of the disruption cycle and continue to build momentum, so then you can become more confident.

Missy Modell:
What advice would give to somebody living, or working, or a friend of somebody who has ADHD? What are just some quick tips? Because it does affect others around us as well. It's not just a solo experience.

Brooke Schnittman:
You named it, and that's what I was going to say. You have to embrace your ADHD and be part of some sort of community of other like-minded people. So if you're alone with anything in your life, right? If you're pregnant by yourself, if you have anxiety by yourself, you don't talk about it, you don't learn from others, you don't embrace it and become more aware, you're going to feel depressed. So embrace it and join some sort of community. It could be free. Go on social media, find an account. I know social media can be deadly, but can also help us, believe it or not, if it's used correctly.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
And appropriately find accounts that work for you, and you resonate with. ADDA, CHADD, ADDitude Magazine, Coaching with Brooke, we all have support groups that can help you. If you buy my book for $9.99, you could join our Discord community. That's a free community for life that helps you with support, and momentum, and body doubling. So find your people, start there, then figure out what you want to do about it.

Missy Modell:
I love it. And why is ADHD a superpower?

Brooke Schnittman:
I love that you said that because I was talking to a Forbes reporter today who's writing an article about the book. Yeah, it should be coming out today. And I talk about how ADHD is a superpower. Not everyone thinks it's a superpower, so I want to be very careful and intentional about sharing this. So I think it's a superpower because I'm able to harness it, and I know how to strengthen my ADHD brain. This is what I do for a living, and I figured out what works for me. If you can harness and you can manage your ADHD, and also accept your failures and your weaknesses and figure out ways to cope with them, to delegate, to automate, to eliminate, to break down all of those things. If you can accept all of that and thrive with your strengths and really tap into what your strengths are and find that position and people around you who lift you up, it's a superpower. Think about the smartest and most successful people: Bill Gates, Richard Branson, Walt Disney, Michael Jordan, Whoopi Goldberg, Justin Timberlake, we all know those names. Simone Biles, I mean, she's a role model. Geena Davis, huge names have ADHD. The smartest and most creative people, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, the person who we coined. Okay, Einstein, he had ADHD.

Brooke Schnittman:
Wow.

Missy Modell:
So how can you not say that if you don't know how to harness it it can't be a superpower? I understand if you are not able to be in that space right now and you're not ready to, or you don't know how to find the right support, you might not think it's a superpower, but I promise you, just stick with it and start learning about yourself and start accepting what is. And don't be so hard on yourself, because as ADHD-ers, we tend to put so much on us, so much more on ourselves than other people. We don't forgive things, we then, we would forgive to other people. We say sorry to other people instead of, constantly, instead of saying sorry for beating ourselves up.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Brooke Schnittman:
And we need to take a step back and be with our people and understand we're not alone in this, and there's people who can help, and there's people like us, and things will get better. Just stay on your path and have the hope and confidence that there's great people out there that can help you.

Missy Modell:
And speaking of people pleasing, which is such a core part of having ADHD, as I ask every guest, what are you sorry for apologizing for?

Brooke Schnittman:
Yeah, I'm sorry for apologizing to other people for not doing anything wrong just because I am a people pleaser. And I have the fawn response from my childhood trauma and my unmanaged ADHD when I was younger that I would, when I was in shutdown, I would seek approval. I would also freeze, but so I would stop apologizing to Brooke, in her younger years and even now sometimes, for apologizing to others for literally not doing anything wrong, but because they might be upset about something or sad about something. Me, feeling like I'm responsible for their sadness or being upset.

Missy Modell:
I was. I mean, I resonate with all that. Where can we find you?

Brooke Schnittman:
Sure, everything's at CoachingWithBrooke, with an E. So I have a big Instagram following with lots of tips, free information there, so feel free to follow me there. Thank you. And I also have a podcast, Successfull, with two L's, with ADHD. Missy was on it as well, and my website. There's lots of free downloadable manuals, and printouts, and videos. So CoachingWithBrooke.com and then you can go from there. We work with adults, children, parents with ADHD, in a one-on-one setting, in a group setting. We have courses. I have my book, Activate Your ADHD Potential, that just came out and has been resonating with a lot of people. So the low-cost item for high value.

Missy Modell:
Thank you so much for your time, I love you. You're the best.

Brooke Schnittman:
I love you too, thank you.

Missy Modell:
You changed my life and thank you for listening. Don't forget to send this podcast around if you find it inspiring. If you have ADHD or suspect someone does, or just want to listen to a good conversation amongst some gals. And I hope you have a great rest of your day.

Brooke Schnittman:
Thank you and same to you.

Missy Modell:
Bye!

Missy Modell:
Thank you for listening to Sorry for Apologizing, brought to you by Rescripted. If you enjoyed this week's episode, be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our amazing guests. To stay in the know, follow me at @MissyModell on Instagram and TikTok, or head to Rescripted.com, and don't forget to like and subscribe!

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